Mao Keji on China’s Rise, Nationalism and Western Misconceptions (Part 1)
Exclusive Interview with Up-and-Coming NDRC Analyst Mao Keji (毛克疾)
Mao Keji (毛克疾) is a rising star among China’s new generation of India watchers. He has worked for several years as an analyst at China’s influential National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) and is currently on leave as a visiting PhD Candidate at Harvard University. Mao is also a prolific commentator on international affairs and the founder of the popular South Asia Research Brief (南亚研究通讯), which tracks and analyses developments in South Asia and now has around one million followers across Chinese social media.
If one were to define a nationalist as someone who is profoundly loyal to their country, places its interests above other countries and holds a strong belief in its distinct political and civilisational strengths, if not superiority, then Mao probably fits that description. When I put this to him, he disagreed, describing himself instead as more akin to an internationalist and patriot who largely supports the policies implemented by his government. “I really dislike extreme nationalists and chauvinists and firmly oppose racial discrimination and all forms of identity-based discrimination”, he told me.
Politics aside, he is also an exceptionally nice person with a very sharp mind. I am extremely grateful for his willingness to take part in this particularly insightful interview and for answering my questions with such candour. I hope you find his responses as interesting as I did—it is well worth the read.
Thomas
P.S. Part two of this interview will follow shortly, with questions on Trump, India and China’s future.
Key Points
Only those who have experienced economic scarcity and stagnation truly understand why a focus on development must sometimes take precedence over a pre-established set of values.
Where many Chinese once viewed the West as a model, today widespread disillusionment prevails, driven by their country's rise and US "immoral" actions such as its economic and technological war against China.
Growing anti-Western sentiment in China has led to an alarming surge in conspiracy theories, with some Chinese nationalists adopting fringe beliefs similar to those of far-right groups in the West.
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A significant number of Western commentators, policymakers and journalists exhibit "an astonishing level of ignorance" when it comes to China.
Many continue to analyse China through the same lens they once used for the Soviet Union, applying the same strategies—an approach that is deeply misguided and bound to have “serious negative consequences”.
Western analysts often oversimplify China’s political and economic system, focusing too much on state control while neglecting the role of private enterprises, society and ordinary citizens in shaping the country’s development.
The Interviewee
Name: Mao Keji (毛克疾)
Year of birth: 1991 (age: 33)
Position: Research Analyst (currently on leave), Strategic Research Department, International Cooperation Centre, National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC)
Other: Founder of the South Asia Research Brief (南亚研究通讯), which has around one million followers across Chinese social media
Research Focus: India’s domestic politics; Sino-Indian relations
Education: BA University of Toronto; MA Tsinghua University–Johns Hopkins University SAIS dual-master's programme; PhD Candidate Tsinghua University
Experience abroad: University of Toronto; Johns Hopkins University SAIS; Harvard University
Interview translated by Paddy Stephens
(Illustration by OpenAI’s DALL·E 3)
1. A Worldview Shaped by Scarcity
Question 1: When we met last year in Beijing, you told me a little about your personal journey—where you come from, your family background and what inspired your interest in international relations. Would you be willing to share some of this with Sinification’s readers?
Mao Keji: My hometown is in the southeast of China, in the county town of Jingning She Autonomous County. It is the poorest county in Zhejiang Province and, for a long time, has had the lowest economic output in the region. Living in a poor county within a wealthy province was a rather unique [奇妙] experience. Some people [of my generation] enjoyed the comforts of modern life [享受现代化生活] from the moment they were born, whereas I experienced dramatic changes in my living conditions as I grew up. This made me realise that modern life cannot be taken for granted [理所当然]. Although economic development may come at a cost [付出代价], the cost of failing to develop is far greater.
Here’s an example that might seem hard to believe. I was studying at Tsinghua University in 2012-3 when Beijing’s smog problem was at its worst. I’m not at all championing air pollution, but I must say, I didn’t find it particularly unpleasant breathing in the smoggy air. Why was that? I had lived most of my childhood in a poor county on the rural-urban fringe, where every day you would smell the [strong smell of] manure used as fertiliser. It was not exactly bucolic [田园牧歌].
At that time, my parents would occasionally take me on business trips to the provincial capital, Hangzhou. One of my most vivid memories there [最深刻的记忆是] was its mixed scent of car fumes and coal smoke—the very smell of smog. So even now, whenever I catch the scent of smog, it brings back those childhood memories: the dazzling displays [琳琅满目] in Hangzhou’s department stores, the taste of KFC and the vibrancy and prosperity of the big city [繁荣的大城市]. This mental association is so powerful that it makes me less averse to the smell of smog. In my mind, it represents a good life, one worth aspiring to [值得向往的美好生活]. Fortunately (or unfortunately for me), it is hard to encounter that smell in Beijing these days. If I wanted to experience it again, I would probably have to go to Karachi or New Delhi to experience it again.
Growing up in a poor county town had a significant impact on me. Now, whenever I encounter controversial issues in society, I always ask myself: is this a problem caused by development or a lack thereof? Only those who have themselves experienced material scarcity [过物质匮乏], sluggish development [发展缓慢], and the pain of being left behind [被遗忘在角落的痛苦] can truly understand this point: problems caused by development can only be solved through further development. If we insist on going backwards [走回头路], we will only prolong that suffering. My experiences have profoundly shaped my worldview, making me focus more on the "economic foundations" of how the world works [世界运行的“经济基础”], rather than on any default set of values imposed from outside of China [外部预设的价值判断]. This is why, at times, I come across as extremely pragmatic [实用主义].
2. Debating China: A Perspective Shaped Abroad
Question 2: As an undergraduate in the early 2010s, you studied international relations at the University of Toronto and were a staunch defender of your country in online debates. You have referred to yourself jokingly as a 50-center “wumao” (五毛)—perhaps as a playful nod to your surname Mao (毛). Could you tell us a bit more about that period in your life? What motivated you to speak up back then?
[Note: A "50-center" (五毛, wumao) refers to an internet commentator reportedly paid by the CCP to promote pro-government narratives and suppress dissent online, allegedly earning 0.50 RMB per post.]
Mao Keji: Actually, I don’t fit the definition of a “wumao” because no one has ever given me 50 cents for my views, haha. In 2009, I went to the University of Toronto for my undergraduate studies. This was just after the 2008 financial crisis and the Beijing Olympics. At that time, there were many academic seminars in Toronto that doubted the West and praised China [质疑西方、吹捧中国]. As an international relations student, I often attended these as an observer. This was a strange and new [新奇] kind of experience for me. Growing up in China, I had always been taught that “the West is advanced, China is backward” [西方先进、中国落后] and that “only by working hard can we change China’s poverty and backwardness” [要努力学习才能改变中国的贫弱落后].